Posted by: mylifeofcrime | July 18, 2006

Missing: Destiny Norton 7/16/2006 Salt Lake City, UT

Destiny
Destiny Norton

Missing Poster
Five-Year-Old Girl Still Missing
Friends, Neighbors Continue Unofficial Search for Girl
Family, Volunteers Search Again for Missing Girl
Amber Alert canceled; police continue search for girl
Child Still Missing, Family Begins Private Search
Salt Lake police search for missing 5-year-old
Family, friends and volunteers still searching for missing 5-year-old girl
Child Still Missing, $15,000 In Rewards Offered
Find Destiny/
National Center for Missing & Exploited Children



Responses

  1. I was alarmed when i watched Desiny’s mother on a video last night when she referred to her daughter as “She WAS a..” and “she WANTED to be a…”instead of speaking about her child “she IS” and “she WANTS”

  2. I don’t know that I would read that much into it as she is a distraught mother who is currently 8 months pregnant and I am sure people are constantly telling her that statistics show she is probably already dead. I am sure she is truly stressed.

    However, that being said, I would not dismiss this either. Hopefully the police have taken notice and will find out if it is relevant or not. I truly hope it is not.

  3. I am sure Destiny’s mother is very stressed, to say the least. However, all investigations start from within the family and then radiate to people outside the nuclear family.

    The unusual living arrangements concern me.

  4. Although I can see why her mother’s words would be somewhat alarming, both parents have passed lie detectors. I don’t see the living arrangements as completely unusual, I have had so little money that I have had to stay with people……

    why don’t people quit judging and focus on trying to find a five year old little girl? This is the important matter, here.

  5. HI, my name is Chanelle and i am in magna and i have been printing and putinf papers up to find destiny and i hope some one finds her.

  6. Some points that raise red flags for me.

    One article states that the squalor of the house was a concern.

    The child’s entire bottom row of teeth were silver crowns. Which indicates poor dental hygiene, by any one’s standards.

    They called the group of adults living there reformed homeless skater punks.

    Efforts are lagging because she’s poor and seemingly invisible to the locals? http://www.sltrib.com/utah/ci_4077912

    May god help her where ever she may be.

  7. My son of 2 years has had dental work, we were lucky to get white porclene not silver. The problem was not because of poor hygein or neglect but that he got his teeth in at three months and we have history of soft teeth. anyway,,
    When I went to sighn up at 5pm the entire time I was there I only saw 2 people signing up. I was unable to be assigned a search group because I had a child with me, all they would let me do is hand out fliers. They had no specific area for me to hand out fliers. I wish I could do more.
    As I was driving I noticed un tammed yards and old structures. I am afraid she got in one of these and got shut in I hope searches are knocking on doors and asking to check these old garages. I know Gena Barberie of X96 got stuck in hers and couldn’t get out because the door roled down and jammed. Neighbors and searchers in the area should help elderly and disabled to check their property.
    maybe she was neglected maybe not. That can be dealt with later we need to find her NOW!

  8. I, also, do not think the silver teeth indicate bad hygeiene. Growing up, my mother could never even afford to take me to the dentist, and I never went……at least this girl has been to a dentist! I don’t care what anyone says about the teeth, the living arrangements, or any of it! This is a helpless little girl….she doesn’t deserve to be judged….at all. SHE can’t help her situation at home. There’s no reason to hold back, just because of what people think of the PARENTS. She’s 5 years old!!!

  9. Why does everyone always focus on the parents, Jon Bonay, Elizbeth smart, all these murders or kidnapping they always think it might be the parents but, they loose focus on the rest of the evidennce, and then they have nothing. Keep looking within all these dang 103 sex offenders around the neighborhood. And why was this man that is of interest missing now. They said he got off on molestation case 2002. These people are sick and they are taken litely. And here is a mother and a father missing there child. And everyone is worried whatt the house looks like inside. Or her teeth, Who cares!!!!!!!!!!!! It has no meaning they past the lie detecting test. SHE IS MISSING.

  10. Yes, Jenny, I agree with you completely!!!! They are focusing on things that DO NOT matter. The only thing that matters is finding a missing little girl!!!!

  11. I wish that this case was getting as much attention as the Elizabeth Smart case did. She is in trouble and needs to be found. It is criminal that her financial status and “unconventional” home are getting as much air time as she is. They may not be wealthy, but Destiny is their daughter – as much as Elizabeth is the Smart’s daughter. Let’s hope this case has just as happy an outcome!

  12. People please remember that when a person (child, teen or adult) go missing ormurdered, the police must always focus on the family and friends first and foremost. Statistic show that people are hurt more by “loved one” (family or friends) than by strangers. This is just routine. Think of the Susan Smith and Diane Downs cases.

  13. I hope, and hope, and hope we find this little Girl. If there are 103 pedifiles in the area, I cannot understand why they are not being looked at closely. Very closely.
    Do they have a suspect or not? What does he look like? Lets find him!
    I live around the corner from Destiny, will be volenteering tomorrow, have been handing out flyers, but I am very concerned. there seems to be so little, and this Family stands alone to find their Baby. It’s just the most horrible thing in the world. These things usually happen closer to home then we like to imagine, and I am frightened for her. I hope we get some direction. I pray she is alive.

  14. 103 pedifiles? try THOUSANDS.
    Parents!! please do not rely just on sex offender lists. One of three girls and one of ten boys are sexually assaulted by the time they reach adult-hood. I know of sex offenders that are not on the sex offender list. It takes alot to finally get these people on that list. They have to be pointed out, an adult has to beleive the child, they have to be taken to court, tried, and convicted as an ADULT. It is a long and painfull process and is usually never done especially because most of these people are family friends, siblings, uncles aunts parents and grandparents..
    I still beleive there is a chance she got mad packed a juice box and did a pretend run away and is stuck in a builing close by.
    I think it is also possible for her to be abducted she is next to a play ground in a big city. Pedifiles love play grounds more then the kids. Just go watch the 30-50 year old men watching little girls (not of their relation) in their bikini s and wet shirts at liberty, or any park for that matter its scarry.. All possibilities are open. So grab some friends, co workers, neighbors, family and religious groupies and search for her.. search for her like Martha Stewart on Meth looking for dust in her pantry.

  15. http://www.chw.healthinkonline.com/modules/SelfCareWellness/vitWellness.asp?wellID=1232

    There is no such thing as soft teeth. Little things like that DO matter. Sleeping in the basement and being neglected ARE important. Being raised by GUTTER PUNKS does matter.

    IMO – they released the suspect because they know that he killed her and they also know that he will return to where ever he buried her and that’s how they will catch him.

  16. Being poor does not mean she is being neglected. And yes, some families do have a history of bad teeth, but it does not mean neglect. Please don’t pass judgement on this family til you have walked in their shoes. Being poor is not fun in any way.

  17. thankyou dentist realist.. YES there is such things as soft teeth.. they are sensitve have deep valleys and prone to cavaties.
    ps take medicine

  18. ALL I CAN SAY IS TAHT WHOEVER TOOK THAT LITTLE GIRL IS A SICK BASTARD AND IF I FOUND HIM I WOULD HIT HIM WITH A FUCKING BATT!!!

  19. when the dentist takes x rays of a person with good teeth they are white. x rays of soft teeth are almost see threw. It is considerd “soft teeth”

  20. they put out an amber alert someone thinks they saw her on shepard lane off of 89
    I was driving past the area and police are searching neighborhoods

  21. They are looking for a 1996 Dark extended cab Dodge pickup truck
    driven by a white man with black hair
    5′6″ 160 lbs
    Destiny was wearing a hat

    I’ve been helping to coordinate the search effort….and all I can say to those who sit home judging the family is:

    Who are YOU to judge anyone? Are you completely sinless????

    These people are missing their CHILD….if you have time to post a judgemental message on this BB you clearly have time to help us look! Get off your behind, out of your air conditioning, into the 110 degree heat and start going door to door.

    BTW: In MY opinion when a poor family spends money taking their little girl in for dental work on her baby teeth….that is considered AWESOME parenting in my book!!

  22. I don’t believe that law enforcement officers are focusing on any one thing more than another. They are simply focusing on everything; as they should.

    As far as the parents go, I think that their living conditions and behavior certainly need to be addressed. As do any other leads and persons of interest, and evidence that may arise. Nothing should be overlooked.

    I don’t personally know enough about the case and the parents to make any unfair judgments. However, I do find the mother’s behavior to be a bit odd. I’m not trying to insinuate that she had anything to do with her daughter’s disappearance. It’s just that I’ve seen total strangers act more distraught over her disappearance. If my child was missing, pregnant or not, I would be so upset, crying, begging, pleading, I just can’t imagine. But I know that everyone behaves differently in times of crisis. And who am I to say what I would or wouldn’t do? But one thing is for sure, I think if she washed her hair it might help people want to keep the TV tuned on long enough to stay interested in the case. Sorry, that wasn’t nice. I mean, I know that if my daughter was missing, I wouldn’t be sleeping or eating, and could probably care less what I looked like, but I would hope that I would at least take care of the hygienic basics such as washing my hair, and putting on deodorant. Ok, that was unfair, and I appolgize.

    In this case, the parents certainly didn’t help the situation when they let the child roam outside the home alone. A 5 year old girl, left alone? The father even admitted to seeing a strange man acting suspiciously that evening. Neighbors reported that various people frequently come and go from the home. Police confirmed that 3 adult couples and 4 children live there, some of them formerly homeless. One neighbor said that there was a party going on at their home on the evening she came missing. Investigators confirmed that the house was in squalor. And that the poor child had to sleep in a corner of the basement? A five year old girl, sleeping in the corner of a basement? One of the pictures released to the media of the child shows her posing in front on a confederate flag. All of these things make me question what kind of life this child has had to endure. What has she already been exposed to?

    Yes, the absolute bottom line is to find out where Destiny is, and I hope they do find her alive and well. But I hope that in the future, the parents take a more serious look at their living conditions, behavior and parental responsibilities. Because no child should be living this way. And now they are expecting another child? Planned Parenthood may be a responsible option for this couple.

    I understand that people go through hard times. My parents went through hard times too when we were growing up. We didn’t always have the best of things, but one thing is for sure, we were safe, healthy, and well cared for.

    Information about this case can be found on the following websites: (americasmissingchildrennews.com) (per deseretnews.com) (per KUTV.com) (per fox.news) (examiner.com).

  23. It’s a very sad day when a person will waste their time and energy talking writing about what they think about a person’s hair, washed or not washed, these people have a missing child. At least I know my child is in Heaven, these people have no idea where Destiny is, can you imagine not knowing what your child is going through, the thoughts that must go through their heads, please stop thinking about if the hair has been washed and start thinking about FINDING THIS CHILD!

  24. C’mon…..If you think for one minute those parents PAID for silver caps…you’re sadly mistaken. Silver caps are the only caps that are covered by medicare. Chances are…they are getting assistance.

    I know it’s hard for most of you to believe, but you can walk and chew gum at the same time. Taking in the WHOLE picture of events not just focusing on one. When you do that you can see if she was being neglected and take that into consideration when looking for a suspect.

    Why are some of you so quick to dismiss the parents being involved? I would hate to have you working on a case in my town. You wouldn’t see the forest through the trees …too busy chasing the boogey man.

    You have to consider everyone and everything. Including the body language, demeanor etc. of people involved.

    Since when is it OK for a child of 5, to sleep in the corner of a basement?

  25. http://deseretnews.com/dn/view/0,1249,640197225,00.html

  26. I am a little skeptical of the family myself but that is neither here nor there at the moment, it’s time for more action to find this little girl, I checked all stations CNN, Headline News etc. all weekend to find out the status of her case and not one station showed anything, I think it needs to be more publicized, in case she is elswhere. I don’t understand why they waited until just this week coming to drain the pond that they were concerned about, I know they said there were chemicals in there but if it is going to be drained who cares. I think there is more to this whole thing than anyone is letting on. And I agree and disagree with some items, because she had bad teeth is definitely not a sign of abuse that could happen for any amount of reasons and if they didn’t have the money to go to the dentist that is understandable also, since it is so expensive to go. But I do feel that there is neglect on the part of her sleeping in a corner in the basement, sorry, but the other people in my house would be in the basement not my child….I think that this little girl may have a hard life at home as it is and it just got harder. I pray God is looking out for her, she needs someone to.

  27. I helped with the search as a mother of five my heart ached for Destiny’s mother. I have a new a apperication of all that is being done by the police department and citizens of the State of Utah to help find this sweet child of God. I pray she will be found and put her parents and community’s minds to rest.

  28. I heard they found the man in the black truck. Nothing came of it. The gas station attendant is being questioned more on the situation.
    I thought they raised $30,000.00 not $15,000.00 if not they should.
    On my way to and from Shelley ID (on non-related trip) we were stopping by gas stations to put up her poster. But we found they all had them posted. My neighborhood has gotten 2 posters per house since the 20th. I am glad to see more.
    Thank godness for her silver teeth and green hair it just makes her easier to find!

  29. I really think that the #1 concern should be focused on bringing this little girl home to her parents, obviously none of you people are helping matters here by bad mouthing these parents and thinking your either police,detectives or god at that matter. I agree get off your asses and walk your feet until you can’t walk anymore helping to find this little girl rather than sitting here running your mouths.
    I pray to god that they find Destiny alive and well, and keep her in my thoughts and prays always.

    Wendy

  30. They just announced she is dead on Fox news. Her body was found in someone’s house. I can’t remember the guy’s name but I heard he was taken to jail. I’m so sad, had just barely heard this today.

  31. It was just announced on the news that Destiny’s body was found in a neighbor’s home five blocks from her house. What a tragedy that some sick individual ended the life of an innocent child. My thoughts and prayers will be with her family, and I will be hugging my 5 and 7 year-olds a little tighter tonight.

  32. Quite frankly, I am horrified at the judgmental comments of many people. My family would not be considered poor. I consider myself to be a good mother, but there have been many times my children play outside at 8:30 at night. Am I with them every minute? No. How many mothers are? Do I check on them within 5 to 10 minutes? Yes. Could something happen to MY children in that period of time? Absolutely.

    My children and I spent an afternoon looking for Destiny downtown. How terribly sad we are that this tragedy did not come to a positive end. It wasn’t that fun to go dumpster diving, but I’m glad we did something.

  33. Another sad ending………
    Remember this !!! If your child goes missing find the neighbors nearest you that perhaps have a single man loner type get a few people together go into his home even if its uninvited and look while the time is fresh better to seek forgiveness than permission. Look at the girl in florida and now this girl. Go in the damn house(s) nearby that fit the bill.
    Ed Smart is not a hero he hired convicts to save a few bucks on home repairs, the police & searchers failed to find her a mile and a half up the canyon, an innocent man died in jail, and he seems to seek out the limelight I think he is contemptable.

  34. It is horrible the wasted energy everyone spent pointing fingers. I think it is obvious this little girl had some serious difficulties at home. The mother is pregnant & with a missing child – she probably couldn’t think straight! Give her a break!

    This community needs to pull together to protect our kids! Destiny is gone! The only positive thing about the news tonight is her parents can quit wondering and know that she is in a better place. As for the rest of us – like Lisa said, HUG your chidren a little tighter tonight & be grateful you have them. Do your best with them. Don’t judge a situation you don’t know all the details of. The Norton Family needs support and help right now especially. Pray for this family!

  35. My heart goes out to Destiny’s family at their loss. What horrifies me almost as much is the judgment passed on her parents. Not only have they clearly been trying to change their lives, but they lose their daughter only to be shat upon by people that have never even met them?? I would invite you to take a look at CNN or a Save The Children ad. We live in the richest country in the world, and even our poor are living in palaces compared to the millions of starving, dying people and the orphans…the orphans left to fend for themselves. Destiny had much much more than even that. There are children all over the world that have nowhere to sleep, nothing to eat. Even Destiny may have had more than most. Do not judge lest ye be judged. Is your closet clean??

  36. Last night when i heard the news about Destiny it made me very sad for the parents having to loose there daughter on the 24th. I can’t even imagine what they are going through… the need our support.

  37. im very sorry for your loss…norton family i hope that sick male pays the consequence for hurting your daughter, may destiny rest in peace

  38. i think the focus now should be sympothizing for the norton family….this could happent o anyone todays society is getting worse daily as we draw near the end of the world..read the bible…signs of times…ok im no precher …….but what i am saying is have some respect here people quit mocking the norton family…….. what we should also focus on is our own children and who is who in our neighborhood…no one can be trusted is for sure…….not all sex offenders are accounted for.i have one i did just found out recently on the list across the street from me….im a single mom of 4 children and i will not let them out of my sight not even for a minute….you need to be paranoid for your kids these days …….to many sick people! i think we need to focus on getting these sick twisted satan followers out of our citys to middle of nowhere away from our children…….its another abduction waiting to happen……..and the law wont do nothing about it unless theres a crime? a crime to late? they should take action(the law) now because of what they had on them already for what they done……..not wait for a new tragedy!

  39. to all the innociet children facing tragedy less than every second…………GOD BLESS YOU …… may those sick twisted sex offenders,etc. face a long slow painful death and sent to hell for eternity!

  40. How old are most of you, the ones with a couple kids or more? You guys need to grow up. And if you’re going to talk shit on anyone, make sure you spell your words correctly so you don’t look like such a jackass. I’m 19 and more mature than most of you idiots who sit here and talk about everything Destiny’s family has done wrong. Have you been following the media? She did not live in a corner of the basement from neglect, she was certainly NOT neglected. She lived there because her family was poor. Let’s review that, shall we?

    NO MONE Y = NEGLECT? WRONG!

    At least she had not been abandoned, abused, or beaten.

    How many of you volunteered in the search? If you did, you probably noticed the mental state her parents were in. They were VERY upset, just like normal parents would be. Not the kind of parents that would kill their child.

    How can some of you stoop so low as to make fun of people like the Nortons when they are down like this.

    Realist, where did you get your information about them “letting the suspect go because they knew he killed her and he would return to the burial site”??? You are so full of shit. If you don’t know what happened, don’t write about it! You are an embarrassment to those of us that are honest enough to talk about what we know, rather than make up what we don’t know.

    It’s all done. Unfortunately Destiny was killed and there is nothing that can be done at this point. We need to learn from this…those of you with children need to pay as much attention to them as you can. And for the rest of us, we need to quit arguing about whether or not Destiny was mistreated, and just let her rest in peace. This is the closure the Norton family needs. They certainly do not need any more drama in addition to what has happened.

  41. “If you cut the head off the snake, the body will die.”

    Folks, pornography is what creates “sick” sex offenders; Male or Female. It’s what fuels their fire and makes them want to act out their desires – and often to the misfortune of the innocent and helpless.

    Anybody who uses their head will realize that if you remove the availability of porn or anything of that nature which incites lewd sexual arousal, you will cut off the fuel supply.

    Sex offenders can heal but it will take a wake-up call and an act of congress to destroy a multi-billion dollar industry.

    Anybody who fights in a war knows that if you remove the supply chain, the battle will be over quickly.

    May God bless the Norton family and watch over our children.

  42. Destiny disappeared from her backyard, which is surrounded by a chained link fence, and was found in the basement of a house 2 doors away (not 5 blocks – it was literally less than a couple hundred feet!) from her own – the two houses even share that same fence. A man was arrested in the home and I hope that he pays for this for the rest of his life.

    My thoughts and prayers are with this family and their tight-knit group of friends who have been so judged throughout this entire tragedy. Some outside of the local area may not have realized that Destiny’s mother had just been released from the hospital the day before her daughter disappeared and was ordered to be on bed rest for the remainder of her pregnancy. And to criticize her for not washing her hair???!!!

    It is a shame that the appearance of her family and their socio-economic standing have been judged. No, their living situation is not ideal for raising a family. But it better than living on the streets and shows they are at least trying to make their lives better and pull themselves up in the world. And now they have lost their daughter to a heartless criminal. Today is their 1 year-old daughter’s birthday and it is a shame that Destiny is not there to share that with them. I pray that her family can find strength to get through what must be many very difficult days ahead and can someday find peace in knowing that their daughter is in a better place.

  43. A very sad ending… too bad the police aren’t able to search the homes of persons not cooperating. It sounds a lot like the case of Jessica Lunsford, found 150 yards from her home a month after she disapeared.

  44. To: Cut the head off the snake

    I have not heard or ready yet that this is a sexual homicide. Please post the links here for your source that this is a sexual homicide. I did not know that the autopsy was even done yet. However, in the Probable Cause Statement, it does not say anything like that, and appears that Destiny was dead before being taken into the house.  I may be wrong, but it does not appear to be a sexual homicide.  If you have other public info, please post it.

  45. About the accused. (I say accused because in America you are considered innocent until proven guilty)

    http://www.crimelibrary.com/news/original/0706/2504_destiny_norton_sidebar.html

    Cut the head off the snake said: Pornography creates ’sick’ offenders and Sex offenders can heal. Are you one of the those religious fanatics that dance around the airports? Sex offenders are wired incorrectly and will never be fixed. They should be exterminated.

    Jen: on July 25, 2006 at 9:46 am.
    Excuse us, we didn’t realize that we’re in the presence of greatness. All of 19 and yet…what an pompous ass. Finding your child’s dead body is closure? You’re right, they will sleep SO much better tonight, knowing she was dead in the yard behind them for days.

    Realist: You’re correct, alot of the time law enforcement ‘watch suspects. It’s called surveillance for those that aren’t familiar with big words.

    It’s very easy to point fingers and be judgemental. I can’t imagine the the pain the parents are feeling right now. The thoughts of inadequacy as parents, the what ifs…all is far worse than any words anyone could ever speak about them.

    R.I.P. Destiny Norton

  46. To Mark D:

    Your suggestion is very illegal. Especially for the police to do. Maybe you did not mean it for the police, but I believe it would also apply to private citizens. Please remember that illegal searches can get a case thrown out. Look at what is happening with the Jessica Lunsford case now. I, too, hate that fact that criminals-especially murderers- have so many rights, but that is to protect all citizens, including falsely accused ones.

    The police may have had a “gut feeling” about him, but without any kind of evidence, they can’t use that feeling. When you are emotional about this, it is hard to see it reasonably/

  47. I was searching….
    I was in the avenues searching vacant lots where homeless were sleeping; in millcreek searching untill they kicked me out at 8:40
    It’s not just porn or mostly porn that starts sex offenders off. It is that these sex offenders were molested as young children. Not only where they molested but no one cared. And if these children told an adult and the adult did nothing about it,,,, it just told that child that this behavior is acceptable.
    I have brought out family members as being sex offenders at 6 years old I told. I told my bishop who didn’t do anything, I told my mom who called me a liar,, my grandmother disowned me. My pscyczo uncle continued to molest children. Who’s fault was that?
    I grew up. I found a close family member was molesting his 3 year old step siblings and I told everyone and I told the police. I was disowned by my mother in law, my step father in law, my father in law my brother in laws my husband understood. So in otherwords everytime I have pointed out a sex offender EVERYONE hated me. What does this say.
    I worked at a YHA group home for sex offenders between the ages of 11 and 20 years old. They wet the bed,, they rocked themselves to sleep. They slept with stuffed animals. They talked in their sleep. Their life stories were tramatic to say the least. It’s not just them to blame. Its society..
    There is more to these sick people… and snake charmer,,, they never heal. They are alcoholics. Take away the bottle all you want, they still want it.
    And realist.. government help? I was on wic. Making every meal from eggs carrots canned tuna a peanut butter is not that enjoyable. The embarassment we went threw so my husband go to go to college rather then work a second job was not fab. Because of his college he now makes a good living we own our home I get to stay home and protect my child. And we pay lots more in taxes. So it all comes back. Too bad you couldn’t go threw the same so you could have a change of heart.

  48. I lived next to the Norton family a few years ago. Shame on everyone talking about the family, their living conditions, Destiny’s TEETH FOR GOD SAKES!!!!!!!! Be gratefull your in a position to look down on others. How it would hurt to fall so far off your high horse. Some of us have to pull ourselves up and struggle to get to a place in life that has been handed to all of you! Not everyone fits the mold of Betty Crocker in the kitchen with a bow in her hair while hubby is off at his executive job!!! Destiny was a sweet precious little girl and her parants LOVED her and were good to her. Whoever said “Yes it is a problem that her parents were reformed gutter punks” go back to baking your brownies and mind your own bussiness!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! They are good people, better people then all of you who are busy judging them. if the roles were reversed they would be the last ones talking trash about you. I pray that Jesus comforts them and eases their pain.

  49. Also “Realist” who do you think you are? Your comments enrage me! I’ll bet you didn’t lift a finger to help find little Destiny. To busy at your computer condeming everyone. Have you ever heard the bible verse (ur probly an athiest) “Before you can help your brother remove the speck of sawdust from his eye you need to remove the plank from your own.” now, who is it that can’t see the forest through the trees? I happen to be on assistance and my son has silver caps on alot of his teeth, my other son has perfect teeth (go figure). Does that make me a bad mom? i don’t think so! now that we know what happened i hope you’re choking on your words.

  50. that ist so sad it touchs my heartt and um i just wnt 2 say i am so so srry dat they found her dead
    :*(

  51. I am so sorry to hear about there loss. I couldn’t even begin to imagine how hard this must be. Honestly people, are we really so low that we have to judge their circumstance? Not everyone is so lucky to have enough money to support. But at least they are trying. I did find it odd that she had green streaks in her hair being a five year old but then I realized that I had no right to judge what was going on in their lives and that I have absolutely no right to judge them. They are doing the best they can with what they were given and are continuing to make a life for them and their family. At one point or another I think everyone has needed a helping hand from someone else. this guy will get what’s coming to him.

  52. My heart also goes out to this family. What a tragedy. Most of you have said very heartfelt words here, and hopefully these are things that reach the family. Not the cruel judgement of others. I would hope if one of my children came up missing, my social status would not indicate how much help I got in finding them! No one’s should.

    As for “realist” it’s interesting how that person has not posted anything since little Destiny was found….
    Those comments were so cruel and heartless. Who gave you the right to judge???

    The family will be in my prayers. I hope this does not affect Destiny’s mother’s pregnancy. After all, I think she does her very best as a mother…..

  53. This is to “ME”, in regards to this statement you left for me earlier.

    Jen: on July 25, 2006 at 9:46 am.
    Excuse us, we didn’t realize that we’re in the presence of greatness. All of 19 and yet…what an pompous ass. Finding your child’s dead body is closure? You’re right, they will sleep SO much better tonight, knowing she was dead in the yard behind them for days.

    First of all, I’m not here to fight with immature jackasses such as yourself. Did I once claim that my presence was “great”? I don’t think so. Yes, I am all of 19 and I think that has something to say about how immature some people are, yourself included, for leaving such ridiculous comments. At least the family won’t be losing sleep wondering if there is something they can do to find their daughter more quickly. If you don’t think it’s closure to finally have answers, tell me what is.

    As for the body being behind them for days, how were they to know? Don’t you think they did everything they possibly could to find her? Wouldn’t you? It’s not like she was laying in a dumpster they managed to overlook or laying somewhere in their backyard.

    So maybe you should go elsewhere to try and start shit with people who are here to talk about Destiny and her family, other than to try to figure out the politically correct definition of what’s closure and what isn’t. Maybe you should grow up, I don’t think we are respecting Destiny when we act like this. Why do you assume it’s your job to be such a bitch? Leave that up to someone else.

  54. OK, I have had enough of this. No more fighting, calling names, etc. Please be grown up here. Any more of these negative comments and they will be deleted. Period. Please be respectful of Destiny and her family.

  55. I wish this site talked about what people where doing to find her. I wish we could have joined and talked about where we were assigned to search. How hot it was. I appreciated reading that people felt as passionate about this as I was. I just wished I could have heard of what civilians were doing to help. She is a lovely girl. I hope that the families choice in religion will help them with the death of the moving on of Destinies spirit. Some people beleive when a child is taken it is because they are to holly to live on earth and are needed even more in heaven. I beleive that is the case here.

  56. I have read all the comments with interest — there is no way that any of us can know what that family is going through right now, but I wonder how many people that had such nasty things to say about the house, her dental care and her family in general would even think about apologizing to the family now that someone else has been arrested for the murders.

    Just remember what the Bible said: Judge ye not lest ye be judged.

  57. This is just crazy, I lived in 3 continenys – Europe, caribbean and Africa, this country America is just fucking SICK, nowhere else they hurt so many children, boys and girls than this country. This is a deeply troubled society, long gone the reputation of “land of opportunities”, this is the land of true horrors, look at the crime statistics!!!

  58. Look at the police, the FBI, the dogs, all this effort, manpower, everything- they did not find a missing girl 2 houses away. isn’t that outrageous? They need a search warrant to do the most obvious?! To search all the neighbors houses 10 min after the child disappeared? That is just COMMON SENSE!
    The police did not do their job, and their dogs are no use! They could not pick up the scent 10 min after the child vanished? if the neighbors are innocent, they would be more than happy to open up their houses for searches.
    The legal system here is truly rotten. That;’s why there are so many criminals out there, right amongst you all.

  59. Media and current technology are good in that they allow us to spread news of tragedy and rally resources, and bad in they allow us to observe others in often exploited and sensationalized settings. Basically you see only the best and worst of people. It is sad to think that in the time of me writing this, there has probably been several more “Destiny tragedies” occur in cities and towns in our country. If we make judgments of people based on these “highlight films” of life, we are prone to make errors in judgment. The crystal ball is always clearer when you look into the past and it is always easy to blame anyone in the public eye.

    May God bless us all to learn to love despite our differences, reach out to those who need help, be better citizens, neighbors, friends, and become more understanding and understandable so that we may find peace and live in happiness.

    God Bless all the Norton’s in our lives…

  60. My family and I all pray for The Norton Family, be they blood related or just close friends.
    No words can be expressed that give justice to how a parent feels when they lose a child.
    I’ve read several things in various places, and I have to remind myself, that we all react to situations in various ways. Some of us react with anger, sadness, others shut down.
    I do pray that justice comes swift and accurate to the person(s) whom committed this crime. (As the case is not finished, who can say it was only 1 perp, or 10)
    Many of us will hug our children more, keep a closer eye, and perhaps learn more about our neighbors.
    However in the process of that. Hopefully many of us will learn that good, quality people are out there in the world. Just because someone looks like a troublemaker, or they are of a different color, or religion, we wont make a judgment.
    We will learn about those around us. Who is working 2 jobs, raising their kids, and yes, even on assistance. Does that make them a bad person?
    I was given some very good advice a few days ago, and now it rings more true then ever. Having a neighborhood watch, working side by side with those you live by.
    It has been said by law enforcement experts before, that most criminals choose to leave their home territory to commit crimes. Perhaps that is correct. I know that in my neighborhood, I speak with my immediate neighbors on a daily basis. And we aren’t in a wealthy subdivision. We are all small families with at least 1 child in the home, and we all work our tails off, and we all keep on eye on each others kids. Some like when it was when my mother was young, or even my older siblings.

    I pray that in time, things of this nature will dwindle and eventually fade out. But we have to start by learning to trust new people, and eventually learning to love all those around us. Criminals don’t wish to tread on grounds where there are watchful eyes.

  61. Dear “Realist” ,

    I can tell you for a FACT those caps were NOT paid for by “public assistance”, so chances are..you don’t know who you are judgeing or what you are talking about. Nor did you waste 2 seconds of your time searching for this little girl (or you would have been briefed on the matter)…so your opinions are clearly from some lazy guy who really does not care about anyone but himself.

    But that is okay…you who sit home playing God by judging others…would not be expected to understand people who are different from you that would be waaaayyyy too far out of YOUR comfort zone.

    Since you do not know what child neglect is, we really can’t expect you to understand anything about what happened.

    >

    GEE…when did YOU last search for the child OR speak to the parents??? Oh! you had no time to do so?????? That’s okay, those of us who believe in GOD and don’t pass judgement on other human beings have already been by to help.

    So WHO would you like to attack now? Arabs? Persians? Kurds? Oh “wise one” who hides behind a false screen name please give us some more of your “all knowing” insight.

    You know the average IQ in this country is 100 because there are those of us that hit 160 and others like yourself to balance that out. No WONDER people believe without ever researching the background of the LDS faith…..thank you for showing us how adverse your standard Utahan is to doing any research.

  62. To Edward:

    Yes, the police need a search warrant to search someone’s home, be it a guilty person or an innocent person. Please remember that our Constitution was written over 200 years ago, along with the 4th Amendment. It protects every citizen against unjustified searches. Think about, what if the police just went into the home without a search warrant and found her body–all of that evidence would have been inadmissable in court and he would walk free. Is that better? Understand that innocent people do get convicted all the time. It does happen. However, our Founding Fathers wanted to limit government and give the people their rights. Read the 4th Amendment. It was not written in the last 20 years to let criminals go. It was written over 200 years ago to protect all citizens.

    In an emotional situation it is easy to judge everything and criticize, but if it actually happened to you, you would be happy to have your rights. Try being an innocent person fighting for your life. This may not be the case here, but it has happened. And hopefully justice will prevail in this case .

  63. I am really sorry to hear about what happend.

  64. Kar,, I think what you said is beautiful and correct..
    “it takes a village to raise a child.” Our Village needs more people who watch out for eachother
    I love what Albert Einstein said:
    “The world is a dangeous place to live; not because of those that do evil but because of those who watch and let it happen.”
    I think neighborhoods with good communication help isolate and scare creeps off. when people know they are being watched it reminds them to keep themselves in check.

  65. i don’t see how it would be an infringment on rights if it was made law that say maybe it was standard for police to search every house within a certain area a child dissapeared from. the probable cause….. a missing child.
    It makes sense to me.

  66. I would like to know just how much Ed Smart and his org has helped in this search. Did he help search, pay for flyers, provide food, did he or Elizabeth even make an apperance?

    I am ashamed by the way the people of Utah responded to this. Was it because little Destiny did not look the part that fits the “normal children” of Utah? Was it perhaps her parents were of lower income?

    I have always been very grateful to live in this state. A state that most of the time takes time to help the fellow man. Not anymore…

    Noones knows the joy that a mother feels holding her new child, Noone knows the sadness a Mother feels when her child is murdered.

    We’re thinking of you Desinty….dance with the Angels!

  67. Aside from the obvious troubles of Amendments and Civil rights we have here in America. (Many don’t understand those rights are there for a reason) There are other things to consider.
    Lets look back at the case of Bonnet in Colorado. Her home was searched, several times, and she wasn’t found. Yet, thats where her body was.
    So there are ways to hide a body within a home, or building. After all, these are criminals we are talking about. They know how to cover up a body, a smell, and while police dogs are priceless, they cannot decipher a scent, in an area where 15 plus people have walked and *tainted* an area.
    When a person goes missing in the woods, or the desert, there are limited people walking over the tracks, or trails where a person went missing. Thats why tracking with dogs is easier out of the city limits.
    I personally don’t think blaming any agency, or persons is the answer. What we should be doing is learning the laws, speaking with our children, and creating a support circle of those around us. If you see that theres one child whom is always walking home alone after school, make it a point to sit on your porch, water your lawn, smile. You don’t have to speak to them, just let them know your there. Kids will become secure with knowing your watching, and that will be another block of safety for them on the way home. If you see a strange vehicle pull up to her, and she acts hesitant. Simply stand up, give a huge smile and say. Hey sweetie, is everything OK?
    Just that alone can send a perp running. They don’t know if you know the child or not.
    If my 13 yr old daughter is having a bad day, and wants to leave the house. She can go to one of the neighbors, whom I call and ask if they have time to let her cool off. And I do the same for them.
    Also, I keep dogs, always have. If my kids go for walks, they go in groups of at least three, and at least 1 large dog is with them.
    While I know some people are unable to keep dogs, due to perhaps allergies, or they live in an apartment. I firmly believe that dogs also help to fend off criminals. So if you aren’t able to have a dog, perhaps speak with your children’s friends parents, and see if they have a dog. When the kids go to the park, take the dog with them.
    Also, I spent several years involved with Domestic Violence Awareness and groups. Many times officers informed us that it was proven that women whom had a dog, even a small dog. were less apt to be assaulted. Because a barking dog brings awareness to the neighbors.
    I do know it is possible to get a prescription to have a dog, for companionship. I know people whom have dogs because they are depressed, or have medical issues, and caring for a dog, makes them have to get up and out of the house. So for some, that maybe a solution to not being able to keep an animal. Alot of places are becoming more pet friendly, as people are becoming more responsible for their pets.

    Whom else has ideas for making our neighborhoods safer? I’d love to hear them, and share them with my kids, and neighbors.

    Thanks

  68. I believe that Ed and Elizabeth Smart were in DC lobbying for the nationwide sex registry. However, their organization and other members of their family (primarily Chris Smart) actually were responsible for organizing the daily searches. Additionally, Lori Hacking’s parents and the fathers of two scouts who disappeared in the Utah wilderness in years past also came out to help.

    I am not ashamed of the way the citizens of Utah reacted. Actually, Destiny’s family has thanked the public for helping so much. While the numbers were less than there were for the search for Elizabeth Smart, you should also keep in mind that Elizabeth Smart’s abduction had nationwide media coverage for weeks. Many of those searching for her came from out of state, including the father of Polly Klaas. The lack of national coverage did make an impact in this case, but the State of Utah shouldn’t be blamed for that. Part of it could also be due to the extreme heat the past two weeks in Utah (which limited who could and could not search) and the fact that 2 years ago the community had rallied to find Lori Hacking at the urging of her husband who knew she was dead. While people hated to think that could be case, I think it could have discouraged some from searching.

    The community DID rally to find this little girl and wept at the news of her murder.

  69. Kar:

    Please tell me bout the Bonnet case. I am not familiar with that one.

    Thanks :)

  70. Stephanie, Thank you for your reply. Maybe I was to quick to jump on the band wagon of our towns not caring, simply because she didn’t fit the picture. I am praying that is not true. Your response also brought to light what others who have gained for the public help have done. Pay it forward, help others, and always be there in times of need, such as this.

    Frustration at the timing of events, and the sad outcome, have led me to question many things.

    Thanks again for your kind reply.

  71. Well said Stephanie.
    Also it was a holiday weekend, and it was thought by some that the news in the Middle East effected the amount of press coverage for this case.

  72. I spelled her name wrong. Its JonBenet Ramsey
    Here is a good link to her case. You can search her name and find more.
    http://www.crimemagazine.com/jonbenet.htm

  73. Kar,

    OH! Ok, never mind. I do know that one. Sorry. Easily confused today!
    Thanks!

  74. To the family of this sweet little girl I am so sorry, my heart goes out to them. As for the people who are passing judgement on this family you should all be ashamed. There but by the grace……….that could have been your family going through this tragedy. You should all take a look at yourselves and pray for forgivness.

  75. I dont know how many of you are from the Ogden area. However I was told by OPD today that on this coming monday (July 31st) evening from 6 to 8 pm there will be safety event in the park by the Weber County Library.
    There will be Child Identification kits done, which include pics, and fingerprints, as well as info about neighborhood watch and other community info.

  76. To any of the people who had anything to say about Destiny’s teeth,(teeth?????!) messy house or her families skater friends, or anything else that you could gnaw on like hungry jackles, you people are SICK- this little girl and her family have been victimized many times over. Once by the murderer & so many more times by your hurtful comments and judgement. What a bunch of vipers -taking time to throw stones at a family who’s little girl is now dead. What kind of message are you trying to send. ” Make sure you brush after every meal- or nobody will care if you’re missing….” You probably think that Destiny’s death would be a “blessing in disguise” if it caused everybody to clean their house -brush their teeth- & live by your rules… Hmmmmm… You would like that wouldn’t you? Your spiritual sin makes God very sad.

  77. We just had a news report. Results are in. Destiny was sufficated, there was vaginal sexual assult, post mortem. The man who did this is being charged, and those charges will carry enough weight for the death penalty.

  78. Kar, on the 31st, it is “Night Out Against Crime”, I thought this might have been a state wide event. Not sure. I took my Grandchild to one last year, which included a hair sample, “they had to have a few strands of her hair, root and all) for a DNA sample. Fingerprints, photos, and lot os fun activies for the kids.

    I urge all of us in Ogden, or surrounding areas to join us for the Night out against crime! Those who city is not having one, come join one close to you.

  79. Gregerson Charged with Aggravated Murder, Kidnapping
    July 27th, 2006 @ 11:08am

    SALT LAKE CITY (AP) — A neighbor was formally charged with murder and kidnapping Thursday in the case of Destiny Norton, the 5-year-old girl who was missing for eight days before her body was discovered in a basement just two doors away from her home.

    Craig Roger Gregerson, 20, is accused smothering the child the night of July 16 after luring her to his home, then sexually assaulting the body and storing the remains in a plastic container in his basement, Assistant District Attorney Bob Stott said.

    “He persuaded her to come inside his residence. Destiny wanted to leave and became very vocal,” Stott said.

    Stott said Gregerson told authorities he put his hand over Destiny’s mouth to quiet her, then she went limp.

    The aggravating circumstances in the murder charge come from kidnapping the child and desecrating the body, Stott said.

    Gregerson could face the death penalty if convicted. He was scheduled to make his first court appearance Friday morning.

    Destiny’s family reported the child missing the night of July 16. Police and volunteers searched for eight days before the girl’s body was found in Gregerson’s basement Monday night.

    (Copyright 2006 by The Associated Press. All Rights Reserved.)

  80. What a shame. Prayers to her family, and those whom knew her.

  81. Shannon, I would hope it was state wide. I was just told it was there and when.
    I’ve got some of my neighbors going, and plan to go door knocking to inform some others whom I know have children.

    This is such a sad case. It just makes me sick. Well we will see how long it takes for justice to come and for this poor family to have closure. Hopefully it wont be dragged out for years.

  82. I’ll be at the one in Ogden, Lester park. If you go there, please look for me and say hello! Easy to find me, I wear oxygen, due to a bad heart and lungs, and my granddaughter will be within 2 feet of me at all times!

  83. Shannon, will do. I’ll have three kids in tow, and my student will be with me whom always wears a Superman visor. (She is an adult student not a little kid.. ) I’ve 2 daughters and one son. And I’ll look like Im about to lose whats left of my mind..

  84. Everyone – please notify as many people as you can about this. (Especially those with young children!) Find out about what you can do to help keep your kids/community safe! Now is the time to get to know your police department, local/city officials, *and* neighbors!…

    Night Out Against Crime:

    West Jordan:
    http://72.14.203.104/search?q=cache:WpaRCWfCCWcJ:www.westjordanchamber.com/happenings.pdf+night+out+against+crime+-+utah&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=11

    South Jordan: http://www.sjc.utah.gov/publicsafety/police-nightagainstcrime.asp

    Kearns: http://events.ksl.com/event-6534e.php

    Ogden: http://www.ogdencity.com/index.php?module=ibcms&fxn=press.pr_221

    Salt Lake City: http://www.ci.slc.ut.us/police/

    West Valley: http://www.wvc-ut.gov/neighborhoodwatch/neighborhoodwatch.cfm

  85. they say she was found in the basment of craig roger gregerson well
    I think he should suffer a hard and misrable death becase he killed desinty norton a poor little inisent girl who deserved better and also peopple say he covered her mouth and killed her but we dont know yet we are all so so so so so so so so sad but that day that I heard she was found dead I was soooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo sad and I couldnt stop crying I told my mom and she could not stop crying eather well got to go.
    sending all my love to the norton family,
    shaylah v

  86. I send all my love to the norton family and I am so sad for them Im crying write now im I am using my sisters computer shaylah v
    well have a good day
    baylee l

  87. I think it is a shame folks want to judge people they do not know. I have 8 kids and we were poor. but being poor doesn’t mean there is no love for them. I know how it feels to lose a child. My baby is almost 20 & as a 3 year old crawled out the bedroom window cause the lock broke. I was hanging wash out back. The police were all over the neighborhood and found her in 20 minutes. Then a while later a lady here lied about her 5 yr old and it makes other parents look bad .

  88. Shannon Said:
    on July 26, 2006 at 1:54 pm

    I would like to know just how much Ed Smart and his org has helped in this search. Did he help search, pay for flyers, provide food, did he or Elizabeth even make an apperance?

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    Shannon,

    Some of the Smarts DID show up at the search site. To my knowledge they did not search, although they did speak to the parents and the media. I don’t know if they donated any money.

    Some businesses which DID donate (although by no means a complete list):

    Smith’s donated a LOT of food and loaned a refrigerated trailer to be kept at the search site…which was a blessing in the heat.

    Office DEPOT on 2100 South donated a LOT to the effort, we needed many office supplies and they did everything they could to help. Thank you Curtis! (Office MAX on the other hand refused to even help with a $25 printer cartridge I needed to create maps for the search parties)

    The Salvation Army was AWESOME with sunscreen and water for the searchers

    Kinkos donated countless flyers and printing services.

    PLEASE SUPPORT THESE BUSINESSES!!

  89. Pasing judgement is something we all have done at times. While we know it isnt right. Sometimes in our efforts to deal with a truama, that is what we do. We make assumptions.
    We are all human, and while I was upset with some of the things I read. I had to remind myself that many of us parents were angry, and hurt. So we just reacted without thinking.
    That is one of our rights as Americans, we are able to voice our feelings and thoughts, then after time and calming down, we can re-assess the situation and say we are sorry.
    In some places on Earth. That is not an option.

    A family being poor should have nothing to do with anything. A family whom is trying and doing thier best is one which I have respect for. No matter thier income, or anything else.

    I pray this family can find closure soon, and that in time thier hearts will be at ease more then they are now.

  90. Stephanie Said:
    on July 26, 2006 at 2:51 pm

    I believe that Ed and Elizabeth Smart were in DC lobbying for the nationwide sex registry. However, their organization and other members of their family (primarily Chris Smart) actually were responsible for organizing the daily searches. Additionally, Lori Hacking’s parents and the fathers of two scouts who disappeared in the Utah wilderness in years past also came out to help.
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    The Smart’s did NOT organize the searches. They were originally organized (and I use the word organized VERY loosely) by U-Search. The disorganization was NOT the fault of U-Search who were trying their best…but coordinating a city wide search is very difficult, especially at a moments notice. With different volunteers taking over every day it was insane, efforts were duplicated, we were initially hand drawing maps, and no one knew what had actually been searched and what hadn’t. Myself and three other volunteers (unassociated with any organizations) developed and streamlined the systematic search process.

    Lori Hacking’s father flew in from California just to help us search!! Also Tennessee Search and Rescue heard we needed volunteers and sent someone to assist! A few other businessess that helped include Taco Time and Tickles Greek-American Restaurant.

    I AM ashamed at certain events which occured in relation to the search. On the last day of the search only 150 people showed up to help. U-Search was ready to pull out after the first week, the police wanted the official search ended, saying that people could search their own neighborhoods on their own, and print their own flyers from the Internet to post. This nearly sent Rachel Norton into labor, as the search was about to be put entirely in the hands of the family….and they were in NO state to take over the search. None of this happened with the Smart case! Yes, it WAS treated differently because they were poor.

    Additionally, someone STOLE a little boy’s bicycle from outside the family’s home on the day after Destiny’s body was found!

  91. To the Norton Family, I am so sorry that your lives have been devastated,
    I can’t imagine all that you are dealing with at this time. Please do know
    that it was not your fault. I hope that your family is able to get some counseling and support and closure. As for people being angry and yelling and so on, I do not judge. I believe the emotions when dealing with such a horrific situation can sometimes get out of hand. I know just from my point I couldn’t stop crying so I can’t imagine your pain.

    I have been through some heartache, but I cannot compare my own with yours. I do know the things that have helped for me is one. Allow yourself to grieve but don’t define yourself by the grief. Those you have lost for now love you, and want you to be happy. I am a survivor of childhood abuse my way to heal is to help fellow survivors. I tell myself each day that if I allow the past to get the best
    of me, then those whom hurt me win, If I prevail then they lose.
    I am not sure if this would be helpful for you ?Please do know that you are in our hearts and prayers . Laurens Hope Utah

  92. que tristesa que pasen cosas asi y que haya tanto loco suelto por las calles no importa en que pais es lo mismo mis condolencias a los papas de la nenita que dios esta con ella yo tambien tengo una nena y esa noticia me ha dolido bastante

  93. To the Norton Family,

    I am so sorry for what you have just been through. It’s like your daughter Destiny became everybody’s daughter that we were searching for. Hopefully God was comforting her through this terrible ordeal in her life. Again the community is so sorry for you.

  94. Gregerson pled guilty to save himself from the death penalty, some kind of hero to do that after taking the life of a child for his own sick craving. I hope he gets some of his own treatment in jail.

  95. Do not forget that the koran and bible and other stuffs are purely written by guys. The monsters who killed people on september 11th were very religious. All religion over the world means fiction. I am an atheist and I think that we are all responsible for allowing criminals to do their things by not punish them. We live in a very sick society, let’s face it. People are corrupted. But I still think that theres good people out there. One thing I am sure of, we are not going for the better. All religion are invented by men to oppress people especially woman and also the poor animals by saying that they are impur which is completely false. I hope that one day we will get rid of the religion, pornos, hunting and all those sick behaviours. Saying by a french person who think that we do not go for the better still.

  96. I FOUND HER SHE IS WITH ME AND I WILL GIVE HER BACK IN ABOUT TWO DAYS!!!!!!!!!!


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